will3154
Senior Member
chinese,Harbin
- Jul 1, 2021
- #1
1."what a heavy rain!"2."What heavy rain!"My question is "Are they both ok ?""Which one is better "Your help is greatly appreciated.
Keith Bradford
Senior Member
Brittany, NW France
English (Midlands UK)
- Jul 1, 2021
- #2
No.2 is correct. The first one is not wrong, but a most unusual way of saying "What a heavy rainfall!"
will3154
Senior Member
chinese,Harbin
- Jul 1, 2021
- #3
Thank you Keith! I like your answer .😄
Hermione Golightly
Senior Member
London
British English
- Jul 1, 2021
- #4
I suppose it's because 'rain' is an uncountable noun in European weather, but even the tropical sort of 'rains' must be uncountable. So we don't talk about 'a rain'. We do say 'it's a hot day', because 'day' is countable.
A
AmericanAbroad
Senior Member
American English
- Jul 1, 2021
- #5
will3154 said:
1."what a heavy rain!"2."What heavy rain!"My question is "Are they both ok ?""Which one is better "Your help is greatly appreciated.
When you put an article, "a" before rain, then it seems to be referring to the rain as an event which took place and ended. It was a heavy rain we had yesterday, or this morning, or just now. Without the article, "what heavy rain" sounds to me like an exclamation you would make while the rain was occurring.
will3154
Senior Member
chinese,Harbin
- Jul 3, 2021
- #6
AmericanAbroad said:
When you put an article, "a" before rain, then it seems to be referring to the rain as an event which took place and ended. It was a heavy rain we had yesterday, or this morning, or just now. Without the article, "what heavy rain" sounds to me like an exclamation you would make while the rain was occurring.
That's another facet. I can feel something subtle from your explanation .Thank you.
will3154
Senior Member
chinese,Harbin
- Jul 3, 2021
- #7
AmericanAbroad said:
When you put an article, "a" before rain, then it seems to be referring to the rain as an event which took place and ended. It was a heavy rain we had yesterday, or this morning, or just now. Without the article, "what heavy rain" sounds to me like an exclamation you would make while the rain was occurring.
In that case ,I think "rain" is countable. If refers to a past event. Am I right ?
will3154
Senior Member
chinese,Harbin
- Jul 3, 2021
- #8
Hermione Golightly said:
I suppose it's because 'rain' is an uncountable noun in European weather, but even the tropical sort of 'rains' must be uncountable. So we don't talk about 'a rain'. We do say 'it's a hot day', because 'day' is countable.
Thank you for your reply. I would interpret it as The first sentence is wrong as rain is uncountable .
Keith Bradford
Senior Member
Brittany, NW France
English (Midlands UK)
- Jul 3, 2021
- #9
AmericanAbroad said:
When you put an article, "a" before rain, then it seems to be referring to the rain as an event which took place and ended. It was a heavy rain we had yesterday, or this morning, or just now. Without the article, "what heavy rain" sounds to me like an exclamation you would make while the rain was occurring.
That doesn't match my experience but it might be more common in tropical climates where "a rain" = a monsoon storm. I don't see the kind of distinction that Will is making between past and present tense.
A
AmericanAbroad
Senior Member
American English
- Jul 3, 2021
- #10
will3154 said:
In that case ,I think "rain" is countable. If refers to a past event. Am I right ?
I believe so. As in, "We only had three heavy rains this season. That's not bad." Or, "How many rains did you have last week?" In fact, I am not certain, you could also say, "What a heavy rain this turned out to be" and be commenting on a rain event as it was occurring just as well as "What heavy rain this turned out to be." It would be more common to say, "What a heavy rainfall this is." or "What a heavy rainstorm". Using the definite article "the" you can say "The rain is very heavy" too. Or, "the rain last week was very heavy." And now that I am thinking of it I must admit you could also say "What heavy rain we had last week," referring to a past event. And the plural, "what heavy rains we had last week." I am not a grammarian. I give up!
will3154
Senior Member
chinese,Harbin
- Jul 4, 2021
- #11
Thank you very much for going this far. I enjoy reading it.
will3154
Senior Member
chinese,Harbin
- Jul 4, 2021
- #12
Keith Bradford said:
That doesn't match my experience but it might be more common in tropical climates where "a rain" = a monsoon storm. I don't see the kind of distinction that Will is making between past and present tense
will3154
Senior Member
chinese,Harbin
- Jul 4, 2021
- #13
Thank you for your take on it. Keith
A
AmericanAbroad
Senior Member
American English
- Jul 4, 2021
- #14
Keith Bradford said:
That doesn't match my experience but it might be more common in tropical climates where "a rain" = a monsoon storm. I don't see the kind of distinction that Will is making between past and present tense.
yeah, i was thinking the same thing, about tropical clients. i almost wrote an example using the phrase "monsoon season". 
A
AmericanAbroad
Senior Member
American English
- Jul 4, 2021
- #15
will3154 said:
Thank you very much for going this far. I enjoy reading it.
for some reason i really enjoy this forum. look in on it for a moment of recreation from time to time. who knew that grammar and word choice could be...enjoyable?????
will3154
Senior Member
chinese,Harbin
- Jul 4, 2021
- #16
I wasn't exaggerating ,It actually sometimes make me laugh 😃
dojibear
Senior Member
Fresno CA
English (US - northeast)
- Jul 4, 2021
- #17
Keith Bradford said:
The first one is not wrong, but a most unusual way of saying "What a heavy rainfall!"
will3154 said:
In that case ,I think "rain" is countable. If refers to a past event. Am I right ?
It seems like BE speakers use "a rainfall" for a single instance of (uncountable) rain. AE speakers may use countable "rain" with the same meaning: a single instance of rain.
In the WR dictionary (AE part), that is the first countable meaning of "rain": a rainfall, rainstorm, or shower.But that is meaning 2. Meaning 1 is the uncountable "rain".
will3154
Senior Member
chinese,Harbin
- Jul 4, 2021
- #18
dojibear said:
It seems like BE speakers use "a rainfall" for a single instance of (uncountable) rain. AE speakers may use countable "rain" with the same meaning: a single instance of rain.
In the WR dictionary (AE part), that is the first countable meaning of "rain": a rainfall, rainstorm, or shower.But that is meaning 2. Meaning 1 is the uncountable "rain".
😃👍
velisarius
Senior Member
Greece
British English (Sussex)
- Jul 4, 2021
- #19
In BE if we do use countable "rain" it's usually to refer to " rains", plural, in the sense of "the rainy season", or " tropical rains".
There was a drought for five months - and then the rains came.
For me, What a heavy rain! 
What heavy rain! 
What a downpour! 
T
taked4700
Senior Member
Kagoshima
japanese japan
- Jul 4, 2021
- #20
Please excuse my curiosity.In BE the reason why "rain" is uncountable is the rain in the U.K. does not have a specific starting point in most cases? I often hear that rain in London is something like a light shower which takes place many times a day so that people in London do not pay attention to when it starts and when it ends.Am I right?
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